Doesn't faith inherently mean not wanting to know what is true?
AND
If I had a child who was doing something wrong. I would tell them to stop. I wouldn’t rely on their friends to tell them to. Say for example, you have a daycare. Five children die from electrical shock because of open sockets. The defense of the daycare is that five years ago they told the children about the danger of the shock. They argue that it was the responsibility of the children to tell each other about the danger. Is this just?
Tuesday, September 22, 2009
Monday, September 21, 2009
Day 2
They came back. Today we didn't talk as long because they had to go do some other Monday-only Jesus related business. This first question has an obvious answer but I wanted to see what they said.
1. Why pray? If it changes god's mind then he is not sovereign. If it does not change god's mind then it is superfluous.
A. You don't ask for things in prayer. Prayer is not like ordering pizza. You do it to tune your will to god's will.
hmmmm... so we pray to figure out what god wants from us? Maybe he should initiate some of this conversation.
2. If god knows the past and future with perfect certainty why did he create me knowing my fate to be an eternity burning in hell forever? If you had a disease which caused all your children to live in relative comfort for one hour and then die slowly in horribly debilitating pain for ten years, would you choose to have children? Is this moral or is god simply a bored sadist?
A. (At this point the institute teacher rambled for about 10 minutes about how I sounded like Jonathan Edwards. And then proceeded to completely ignore the question.) Bad things happen for a reason. If you had children, you wouldn't let them live at home forever. God "kicked us out of his home" to allow us to progress. Doctrine and Covenants 38:2 says that "all things are present in his eyes" which apparently means everything happens for a reason. So us going to hell happens for a reason? At this point they ask me if the question was answered. I say "absolutely not." So they ramble about FAITHFAITHFAITH for about 30 minutes and then give up and leave.
The missionaries will be back on Thursday, September 24, 2009
1. Why pray? If it changes god's mind then he is not sovereign. If it does not change god's mind then it is superfluous.
A. You don't ask for things in prayer. Prayer is not like ordering pizza. You do it to tune your will to god's will.
hmmmm... so we pray to figure out what god wants from us? Maybe he should initiate some of this conversation.
2. If god knows the past and future with perfect certainty why did he create me knowing my fate to be an eternity burning in hell forever? If you had a disease which caused all your children to live in relative comfort for one hour and then die slowly in horribly debilitating pain for ten years, would you choose to have children? Is this moral or is god simply a bored sadist?
A. (At this point the institute teacher rambled for about 10 minutes about how I sounded like Jonathan Edwards. And then proceeded to completely ignore the question.) Bad things happen for a reason. If you had children, you wouldn't let them live at home forever. God "kicked us out of his home" to allow us to progress. Doctrine and Covenants 38:2 says that "all things are present in his eyes" which apparently means everything happens for a reason. So us going to hell happens for a reason? At this point they ask me if the question was answered. I say "absolutely not." So they ramble about FAITHFAITHFAITH for about 30 minutes and then give up and leave.
The missionaries will be back on Thursday, September 24, 2009
Day 1
1. Why are we being punished for Adam's sin in light of Deuteronomy 24:16 which states that children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers?
A. There's a difference between "sin" and "transgression". Adam and Eve committed a transgression which is much like an accident. We can be punished for the accidents of our fathers but not their sins.
Well, this *almost* makes sense in the bizzaro world.
2. For justice to exist, the punishment must fit the crime. No matter how many sins one commits in his life, there is a finite limit. Yet, hell's punishment is infinte.
A. They spend about 20 minutes throwing the Doctrine and Covenants section 19 at me which talks about how repenting saves you from this. After I finally manage to get in a word I realize they do not at all understand the question. D&C 19 only applies to people pre-death. So I ask what happens to good people who don't repent before they die. Their reply? There is a backdoor out of hell. So in their insane world, you're only stuck in hell as long as you need to be to make up for your sins...and then they just let you out.
I love it.
3. According to Mark 15:34, Jesus shouts, "My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me?" Those are not the words of a man voluntarily sacrificing himself for our sins. How, then, can Jesus be the savior?
A. It's not like he wasn't doing it voluntarily, it just sucked for him because he was perfect and all.
Which brings us to...
4. How can Jesus be the model of sinless perfection when he denies his moral perfection in Matthew 19:17?
A. This is one of my favorite answers ever. It was mistranslated.
5. Satan is the prince of lies. It is said that he will appear to you under the guise of an angel of light to decieve you. Are you absolutely sure the "word of god" is not a work of Satan, containing just enough good to fool you but also blasphemous ideas which are not of god?
A. "How do you know that you know what you know?" You use your feelings, and empirical evidence. These things show us the bible and the Book of Mormon are true.
Are. You. Serious? EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE?
That was all for day one. They'll be back Monday, September 21, 2009. Comments are appreciated.
A. There's a difference between "sin" and "transgression". Adam and Eve committed a transgression which is much like an accident. We can be punished for the accidents of our fathers but not their sins.
Well, this *almost* makes sense in the bizzaro world.
2. For justice to exist, the punishment must fit the crime. No matter how many sins one commits in his life, there is a finite limit. Yet, hell's punishment is infinte.
A. They spend about 20 minutes throwing the Doctrine and Covenants section 19 at me which talks about how repenting saves you from this. After I finally manage to get in a word I realize they do not at all understand the question. D&C 19 only applies to people pre-death. So I ask what happens to good people who don't repent before they die. Their reply? There is a backdoor out of hell. So in their insane world, you're only stuck in hell as long as you need to be to make up for your sins...and then they just let you out.
I love it.
3. According to Mark 15:34, Jesus shouts, "My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me?" Those are not the words of a man voluntarily sacrificing himself for our sins. How, then, can Jesus be the savior?
A. It's not like he wasn't doing it voluntarily, it just sucked for him because he was perfect and all.
Which brings us to...
4. How can Jesus be the model of sinless perfection when he denies his moral perfection in Matthew 19:17?
A. This is one of my favorite answers ever. It was mistranslated.
5. Satan is the prince of lies. It is said that he will appear to you under the guise of an angel of light to decieve you. Are you absolutely sure the "word of god" is not a work of Satan, containing just enough good to fool you but also blasphemous ideas which are not of god?
A. "How do you know that you know what you know?" You use your feelings, and empirical evidence. These things show us the bible and the Book of Mormon are true.
Are. You. Serious? EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE?
That was all for day one. They'll be back Monday, September 21, 2009. Comments are appreciated.
THE TEAM
Elder Morja- Main missionary. Has been converting helpless civilians for a little over a year. Elder Morja hails from Brazil.
Elder Tapia- Companion. Seems to understand words a little better than Elder Morja. Also has been on his mission for a little over a year. Elder Tapia originates in Mexico City.
Shannon- Shannon is a student at the college. She comes to all our meetings to assure that I do not seduce the innocent missionaries.
The "Institute Teacher"- He answers most of the questions. He's been teaching defenseless minds for years. He likes to ramble.
VS
Nessa- High School educated, twenty year old girl who asks too many questions.
Elder Tapia- Companion. Seems to understand words a little better than Elder Morja. Also has been on his mission for a little over a year. Elder Tapia originates in Mexico City.
Shannon- Shannon is a student at the college. She comes to all our meetings to assure that I do not seduce the innocent missionaries.
The "Institute Teacher"- He answers most of the questions. He's been teaching defenseless minds for years. He likes to ramble.
VS
Nessa- High School educated, twenty year old girl who asks too many questions.
Introduction
Hi
My name is Nessa. Recently I've moved out to the (not so) lovely state of Idaho. Out here there are lots and lots of people who would much prefer it if I were a Mormon. They come to my house approximately three times a week to talk. At some point in time they decided that two missionaries was clearly not enough to handle one twenty year old girl. We've now upgraded to a team. I'm here to document questions I ask and the answers I get. You're here to... a) be amused by them b) help me think of new questions to ask these lovely friends of ours. So, comment away, feel free to send me emails, enjoy!
My name is Nessa. Recently I've moved out to the (not so) lovely state of Idaho. Out here there are lots and lots of people who would much prefer it if I were a Mormon. They come to my house approximately three times a week to talk. At some point in time they decided that two missionaries was clearly not enough to handle one twenty year old girl. We've now upgraded to a team. I'm here to document questions I ask and the answers I get. You're here to... a) be amused by them b) help me think of new questions to ask these lovely friends of ours. So, comment away, feel free to send me emails, enjoy!
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